What 'crimes against humanity' do you imagine they have committed? As to Social Credit, 95% of Chinese are enthusiastic about it. So would you be if you studied it.
For individual citizens, it is 90% carrot and 10% stick– the stick being embarrassment and inconvenience.
Not so for companies and government officials, both of which can suf…
What 'crimes against humanity' do you imagine they have committed? As to Social Credit, 95% of Chinese are enthusiastic about it. So would you be if you studied it.
For individual citizens, it is 90% carrot and 10% stick– the stick being embarrassment and inconvenience.
Not so for companies and government officials, both of which can suffer loss of licenses and careers if a sufficient number of citizens condemn the way they do business.
Its impact will be similar to that of the Cultural Revolution, which emancipated 400 million peasants by teaching them to read, write, and vote.
It's a commercial emancipation, that really does give power to the people.
JW Mason described Social Credit as it might be implemented in the West: "People get very excited about China’s social credit system, a sort of generalization of the “permanent record” we use to intimidate schoolchildren. And ok, it does sound kind of dystopian. If your rating is too low, you aren’t allowed to fly on a plane. Think about that — a number assigned to every person, adjusted based on somebody’s judgement of your pro-social or anti-social behavior. If your number is too low, you can’t on a plane. If it’s really low, you can’t even get on a bus. Could you imagine a system like that in the US? Except, of course, that we have exactly this system already. The number is called a bank account. The difference is simply that we have so naturalized the system that “how much money you have” seems like simply a fact about you, rather than a judgement imposed by society."
Obviously you're well enough informed on China to know who Mao Zhedong is, or the Tiananmen square massacre, obvious suppression of human rights and freedom in general, so I'm surprised you'd even ask "what crimes against humanity". Maybe you meant to type "which crimes...". The list could go on of course, but that seems to be enough.
I suspect the 95% "enthusiastic" about social credit are lying about it so (or the number is just blatantly false) so they aren't targeted for cancellation themselves. Even if it were a good thing, as you claim, history has shown that governments always find ways to turn a small thing into tyranny. It's just another tool of control in the form of a Trojan Horse, and I hope the Chinese people really aren't as brainwashed as the China-supported North Korean government has their people (or, perhaps just terrified to dissent).
It's an interesting argument you make for it so I can see how it might appeal to some, but I still think it's incredibly naive to expect the suggested results coming out of it. There's major problems with a system like this under the complete control over an oppressive government. There are *always* negative unintended consequences when governments tamper with complex systems that were not predicted - even if (and maybe especially) their intent was truly positive. Economics history is littered with examples.
You need to ask how free citizens really are to condemn institutions or government officials for starters. Also you should look up Serpentza.
From what sources did you hear those allegations about China?
Were they the same sources that lied to you about the Lusitania? The missile gap? The Gulf of Tonkin? Incubator babies? 9/11? The torture memos? Iraq's WMDs? Niger yellow cake? Libyan Viagra sprees? Syrian chemical attacks?
Serbia? Saddam Hussein’s WMDs? Iranian nukes? Libya? The Russian invasion of Ukraine?
Consider this: NONE of those countries, including the USSR and Russia threatened American hegemony. China absolutely represents a total threat to American hegemony.
So our media/government Wurlitzer has been turned up to 11 on China. None of what you've been told about China is true. None of it.
Hah, well that's a good point to raise that it's healthy to stay consistently skeptical. (Not sure I believe all of those are genuine conspiracies but that's another topic.)
Tiananmen--are there people (other than the CCP) who claim it never happened, or is it accepted that it's a good thing? We're told that the whole event is censored and scrubbed from the record. The "tank guy" picture probably is too (the guy's probably dead I would guess).
Now even if, for the sake of discussion, most allegations are just lies - It's still unethical for an entity like a government to restrict personal freedoms. I don't like when the US or another other government does it either, but China seems to be following North Korea's lead for suppression of human rights. I'm sure those in Hong Kong and Taiwan would not speak so glowingly about the authoritarians running the mainland now.
"Tiananmen--are there people (other than the CCP) who claim it never happened, or is it accepted that it's a good thing? We're told that the whole event is censored and scrubbed from the record. The "tank guy" picture probably is too (the guy's probably dead I would guess)."
Nobody was injured or killed–or even harshly spoken to–in Tiananmen Square. Given that the demonstrations attracted by far the biggest international media scrum in PRC history and that most were hostile to the PRC, we would have copious written and filmed evidence of violence if there were any. But there wasn't and we don't.
Far from being 'censored and scrubbed from the record,' Bill Clinton criticized China's premier for it, face to face, for an hour on national Chinese television. And the Beijing Municipal Government's report on riot-related fatalities in Chang'An Avenue is still publicly accessible.
What interested me is that the story ended in a most surprising place, London's Court of Assizes, in the first murder trial to be held in camera in modern British history. The defendant was the leader of the riot...you can guess the rest.
What 'crimes against humanity' do you imagine they have committed? As to Social Credit, 95% of Chinese are enthusiastic about it. So would you be if you studied it.
For individual citizens, it is 90% carrot and 10% stick– the stick being embarrassment and inconvenience.
Not so for companies and government officials, both of which can suffer loss of licenses and careers if a sufficient number of citizens condemn the way they do business.
Its impact will be similar to that of the Cultural Revolution, which emancipated 400 million peasants by teaching them to read, write, and vote.
It's a commercial emancipation, that really does give power to the people.
JW Mason described Social Credit as it might be implemented in the West: "People get very excited about China’s social credit system, a sort of generalization of the “permanent record” we use to intimidate schoolchildren. And ok, it does sound kind of dystopian. If your rating is too low, you aren’t allowed to fly on a plane. Think about that — a number assigned to every person, adjusted based on somebody’s judgement of your pro-social or anti-social behavior. If your number is too low, you can’t on a plane. If it’s really low, you can’t even get on a bus. Could you imagine a system like that in the US? Except, of course, that we have exactly this system already. The number is called a bank account. The difference is simply that we have so naturalized the system that “how much money you have” seems like simply a fact about you, rather than a judgement imposed by society."
Obviously you're well enough informed on China to know who Mao Zhedong is, or the Tiananmen square massacre, obvious suppression of human rights and freedom in general, so I'm surprised you'd even ask "what crimes against humanity". Maybe you meant to type "which crimes...". The list could go on of course, but that seems to be enough.
I suspect the 95% "enthusiastic" about social credit are lying about it so (or the number is just blatantly false) so they aren't targeted for cancellation themselves. Even if it were a good thing, as you claim, history has shown that governments always find ways to turn a small thing into tyranny. It's just another tool of control in the form of a Trojan Horse, and I hope the Chinese people really aren't as brainwashed as the China-supported North Korean government has their people (or, perhaps just terrified to dissent).
It's an interesting argument you make for it so I can see how it might appeal to some, but I still think it's incredibly naive to expect the suggested results coming out of it. There's major problems with a system like this under the complete control over an oppressive government. There are *always* negative unintended consequences when governments tamper with complex systems that were not predicted - even if (and maybe especially) their intent was truly positive. Economics history is littered with examples.
You need to ask how free citizens really are to condemn institutions or government officials for starters. Also you should look up Serpentza.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2FjGDCgcBBE
From what sources did you hear those allegations about China?
Were they the same sources that lied to you about the Lusitania? The missile gap? The Gulf of Tonkin? Incubator babies? 9/11? The torture memos? Iraq's WMDs? Niger yellow cake? Libyan Viagra sprees? Syrian chemical attacks?
Serbia? Saddam Hussein’s WMDs? Iranian nukes? Libya? The Russian invasion of Ukraine?
Consider this: NONE of those countries, including the USSR and Russia threatened American hegemony. China absolutely represents a total threat to American hegemony.
So our media/government Wurlitzer has been turned up to 11 on China. None of what you've been told about China is true. None of it.
Hah, well that's a good point to raise that it's healthy to stay consistently skeptical. (Not sure I believe all of those are genuine conspiracies but that's another topic.)
Tiananmen--are there people (other than the CCP) who claim it never happened, or is it accepted that it's a good thing? We're told that the whole event is censored and scrubbed from the record. The "tank guy" picture probably is too (the guy's probably dead I would guess).
Now even if, for the sake of discussion, most allegations are just lies - It's still unethical for an entity like a government to restrict personal freedoms. I don't like when the US or another other government does it either, but China seems to be following North Korea's lead for suppression of human rights. I'm sure those in Hong Kong and Taiwan would not speak so glowingly about the authoritarians running the mainland now.
"Tiananmen--are there people (other than the CCP) who claim it never happened, or is it accepted that it's a good thing? We're told that the whole event is censored and scrubbed from the record. The "tank guy" picture probably is too (the guy's probably dead I would guess)."
Nobody was injured or killed–or even harshly spoken to–in Tiananmen Square. Given that the demonstrations attracted by far the biggest international media scrum in PRC history and that most were hostile to the PRC, we would have copious written and filmed evidence of violence if there were any. But there wasn't and we don't.
Far from being 'censored and scrubbed from the record,' Bill Clinton criticized China's premier for it, face to face, for an hour on national Chinese television. And the Beijing Municipal Government's report on riot-related fatalities in Chang'An Avenue is still publicly accessible.
What interested me is that the story ended in a most surprising place, London's Court of Assizes, in the first murder trial to be held in camera in modern British history. The defendant was the leader of the riot...you can guess the rest.
Interesting claim, I'll have to look into it.