And *you* are ignoring the fact that whereas Norway and Denmark, combined population 11.3 million, have had 880 Covid 19 deaths between them, Sweden, with 10 million people, have had 5766. The difference is equivalent to the death toll in 9/11 plus 6 fully laden jets crashing.
I await your explanation for the relatives of the deceased of why being "normal" again is better than their loved ones still being alive.
Bwahahaha. You do realize that EVERY aspect of society has tradeoffs in terms of lives, right? In the USA over 200,000 people a year die from preventable medical error. Kids are killed in family (backyard) pools more often than from gunshots. The number of people killed and injured on roadways is staggering.
Do we shut down the highway system to respect the families of those who died in traffic accidents?
So why should we shut down an entire economy, churches, etc, because of a few flu deaths?
Exactly. People have lost their minds. 80,000 people die each week in the United States. People die. If we were concerned about flu deaths, then we should all just end it right here and now because this is a fact of life. Should we shut down driving? What about smokers? Why can they be "free" to smoke and get lung disease so we have to protect them? Also, the antibodies is a non-starter because no matter what you get, antibodies go away....that's why you have T-CELLS....it remembers. Funny how the body already knows how to deal with this.
A strong immune system is the best "cure" that we have. Live healthy, exercise, eat a balanced diet, get enough sleep and DON'T listen to the nay-sayers.
You obviously have no sense of statistics or how diseases spread. The dynamics in larger populations, especially of high density, are quite different. Other factors such as mobility, cluster scale, etc. are all highly relevant, as are the nature of inward and outgoing travel. A couple of quite random (in the sense of timing, etc.) differences at the beginning of such an epidemic translate to potentially huge outcomes between regions and countries. For example, one region may have a different age demographic and therefore massively skew outcomes.
Gosh, what a put down. I should emphasise that this is your opinion, and you are fully entitled to it, but it is no more, and no less valid that mine.
What I intended, but perhaps did not adequately convey, was to give a perspective of just how many people 5000 is. Please note that the numerical comparison is completely true, 5000 is the entire 9/11 plus 6 fully laden jets.
Check this, from a person who I think, but certainly cannot prove, could be one of your soulmates:
>
Joe WhiteAug 12
Bottom line- Even if 5 MILLION DIE, out of 8 BILLION, whats the problem?
I do admire your concise summation of the situation.
But, and this is a big one, can we agree that the Swedes have lost nearly 5000 more citizens than the combined tallies of Denmark and Norway? Are we also agreed that the Swedish economy all of these three economies are predicted to take a 7% hit to GDP, meaning that there has been only pain from Sweden's approach, and no gain?
And can we also agree that the architect of Sweden's policy, Anders Tegnell, has begun to rethink his 'right' strategy?
Now, Tegnell has for the first time admitted publicly that the strategy is resulting in too many deaths.
"Clearly, there is potential for improvement in what we have done in Sweden," he said.<
As for 'Swedes have more freedom', check this:
> with many other European Union countries now rolling back their lockdowns after appearing to bring COVID-19 under control, there are signs that Sweden may be left behind. That includes the freedom of movement of its citizens, as some EU countries restrict access to people coming from what are deemed high-risk COVID zones.<
Any thoughts on these aspects, or have we exhausted your repertoire?
>Less deaths in Denmark and Norway proves nothing.
Damn! And here I was thinking that fewer (not less) deaths meant a more effective treatment. Now I think on it, I still believe that.
"When the whole world is rushing towards a cliff, the one running opposite is seen as insane."
How philosophical. An alternative would be, 'When the whole country is rushing towards safety, the one running opposite is the one that wants to vote for Trump'
We don't have the data quite yet but it will be very little different. Either less than in the previous years, seasonally-speaking, the same or not much more.
Also, consider that if a year has lower deaths than average, the population susceptible to flu the following year is larger, so one would expect a spike in deaths comparatively-speaking.
If you're asking me I refer you back to my comment тАФ especially the bit where I say "we don't have the data quite yet".
Concerning an example of lower deaths in one year translating to likely higher deaths the following year for diseases like flu, just check the EUROMOMO data for say the last 6-7 years and you'll see what I mean.
Comparing deaths is a fools game, except against background all-cause deaths over time for specific countries, which allows one to filter out the impact that SARS-COV-2 had that was not usual.
The EUROMOMO stats will soon provide a much fuller picture and my sense is that this will show that this virus had nowhere near, like next level nowhere near, the impact that so-called experts everywhere (except Sweden) predicted.
>But itтАЩs obvious you are yet another disingenuous ideologue, virtue Signaling without any evidence to support your constantly moving political goal posts.
Am I keeping you from Brietbart?
My goalposts have remained in their original position. The Swedish approach has produced
. no economic benefit
. more personal freedom in their own country, possibly less in adjoining countries.
. many times more deaths, or, as you endearingly termed them, drains on their [The Swedish] already burdened social security system.
I am embarrassed to be on the same blog as you.
But ..
You will need more than personal attacks to alter the above.
You forget that the other skandis must keep to their strategy of lockdown while Sweden is normal again
And *you* are ignoring the fact that whereas Norway and Denmark, combined population 11.3 million, have had 880 Covid 19 deaths between them, Sweden, with 10 million people, have had 5766. The difference is equivalent to the death toll in 9/11 plus 6 fully laden jets crashing.
I await your explanation for the relatives of the deceased of why being "normal" again is better than their loved ones still being alive.
Bwahahaha. You do realize that EVERY aspect of society has tradeoffs in terms of lives, right? In the USA over 200,000 people a year die from preventable medical error. Kids are killed in family (backyard) pools more often than from gunshots. The number of people killed and injured on roadways is staggering.
Do we shut down the highway system to respect the families of those who died in traffic accidents?
So why should we shut down an entire economy, churches, etc, because of a few flu deaths?
People like you are insane.
jim : you had me at Bwahahaha
Exactly. People have lost their minds. 80,000 people die each week in the United States. People die. If we were concerned about flu deaths, then we should all just end it right here and now because this is a fact of life. Should we shut down driving? What about smokers? Why can they be "free" to smoke and get lung disease so we have to protect them? Also, the antibodies is a non-starter because no matter what you get, antibodies go away....that's why you have T-CELLS....it remembers. Funny how the body already knows how to deal with this.
A strong immune system is the best "cure" that we have. Live healthy, exercise, eat a balanced diet, get enough sleep and DON'T listen to the nay-sayers.
You obviously have no sense of statistics or how diseases spread. The dynamics in larger populations, especially of high density, are quite different. Other factors such as mobility, cluster scale, etc. are all highly relevant, as are the nature of inward and outgoing travel. A couple of quite random (in the sense of timing, etc.) differences at the beginning of such an epidemic translate to potentially huge outcomes between regions and countries. For example, one region may have a different age demographic and therefore massively skew outcomes.
Your parallel with 9/11 is emotive nonsense.
Thank you for your comment, mc.
>You obviously have no ...
Alas, you lost me at this point.
However, I did note this:
>Your parallel with 9/11 is emotive nonsense.
Gosh, what a put down. I should emphasise that this is your opinion, and you are fully entitled to it, but it is no more, and no less valid that mine.
What I intended, but perhaps did not adequately convey, was to give a perspective of just how many people 5000 is. Please note that the numerical comparison is completely true, 5000 is the entire 9/11 plus 6 fully laden jets.
Check this, from a person who I think, but certainly cannot prove, could be one of your soulmates:
>
Joe WhiteAug 12
Bottom line- Even if 5 MILLION DIE, out of 8 BILLION, whats the problem?
<
What a cutie. Ungrammatical and callous.
Sam...Sweden got it right. End of story.
>Sam...Sweden got it right. End of story.
Hey, ant.
I do admire your concise summation of the situation.
But, and this is a big one, can we agree that the Swedes have lost nearly 5000 more citizens than the combined tallies of Denmark and Norway? Are we also agreed that the Swedish economy all of these three economies are predicted to take a 7% hit to GDP, meaning that there has been only pain from Sweden's approach, and no gain?
And can we also agree that the architect of Sweden's policy, Anders Tegnell, has begun to rethink his 'right' strategy?
>Man behind Sweden's controversial coronavirus strategy admits mistakes
Now, Tegnell has for the first time admitted publicly that the strategy is resulting in too many deaths.
"Clearly, there is potential for improvement in what we have done in Sweden," he said.<
As for 'Swedes have more freedom', check this:
> with many other European Union countries now rolling back their lockdowns after appearing to bring COVID-19 under control, there are signs that Sweden may be left behind. That includes the freedom of movement of its citizens, as some EU countries restrict access to people coming from what are deemed high-risk COVID zones.<
Any thoughts on these aspects, or have we exhausted your repertoire?
Is that "5000 more deaths" per capita?
Populations of Denmark + Norway = 1.1 * Population of Sweden.
Comparing the actual figures, and therefore slightly understating the Swedish position.
>so Sweden lost 5,000 drains on their already burdened social security system.
Eventually, Isabel, *you* will be infirm. Will you have amended your philosophy by then?
Until then, how is your charity work going?
I did not realise that you had returned from your Medicines Sans Frontiers work. We should catch up soon!
>Less deaths in Denmark and Norway proves nothing.
Damn! And here I was thinking that fewer (not less) deaths meant a more effective treatment. Now I think on it, I still believe that.
"When the whole world is rushing towards a cliff, the one running opposite is seen as insane."
How philosophical. An alternative would be, 'When the whole country is rushing towards safety, the one running opposite is the one that wants to vote for Trump'
Your joking there are less deaths from covi19 then from the flu last year?
We don't have the data quite yet but it will be very little different. Either less than in the previous years, seasonally-speaking, the same or not much more.
Also, consider that if a year has lower deaths than average, the population susceptible to flu the following year is larger, so one would expect a spike in deaths comparatively-speaking.
Where is your evidence?
If you're asking me I refer you back to my comment тАФ especially the bit where I say "we don't have the data quite yet".
Concerning an example of lower deaths in one year translating to likely higher deaths the following year for diseases like flu, just check the EUROMOMO data for say the last 6-7 years and you'll see what I mean.
This is a silly comment.
Comparing deaths is a fools game, except against background all-cause deaths over time for specific countries, which allows one to filter out the impact that SARS-COV-2 had that was not usual.
The EUROMOMO stats will soon provide a much fuller picture and my sense is that this will show that this virus had nowhere near, like next level nowhere near, the impact that so-called experts everywhere (except Sweden) predicted.
>and my sense is that this
What you are saying, mc, is that you are guessing.
Today's figures:
21 Million cases, 762K deaths.
>But itтАЩs obvious you are yet another disingenuous ideologue, virtue Signaling without any evidence to support your constantly moving political goal posts.
Am I keeping you from Brietbart?
My goalposts have remained in their original position. The Swedish approach has produced
. no economic benefit
. more personal freedom in their own country, possibly less in adjoining countries.
. many times more deaths, or, as you endearingly termed them, drains on their [The Swedish] already burdened social security system.
I am embarrassed to be on the same blog as you.
But ..
You will need more than personal attacks to alter the above.
Again, a wild and unsubstantiated claim... and I think you mean uncontrolled.