PS. I condemn everyone who intentionally targets civilians. I am not selective in my condemnation of Hamas & Israel. I have principles and one of them is "Civilians are NOT to be targeted". Both sides do it and both sides suck.
They don't even care about their OWN civilians. The people calling BS on the Israeli government's story are hardly pro-Palestinian. They are IDF & ex-IDF who served in and around Gaza. Some of them probably shot or shot at Palestinians. They cite FACTS like:
The list is getting longer. The 2 survivors of the Israeli base where the general (safe in a bunker) called in an air strike on his own base are saying they reported Hamas actions along the fence increasing from a couple of times a week to daily to several times a day. No action was taken.
Add that to the existing list:
1) Sept 1st the government takes arms away from the civilian defence forces in the Gaza belt communities.
2) Sept 10 the army tells the Gaza belt communities to go ahead with their planned festivities as they were sure they were entering a "period of calm"
3) Egypt warns Israel "Something big is afoot in Gaza" 10 days before Oct 7
4) Egypt warns Israel AGAIN that "Something big is about to happen in Gaza" 3 days before Oct 7
5) Israel PULLS a lot of troops from the Gaza border
6) Israel takes 7 (yes SEVEN) hours to respond (you can drive from Bere Sheva to Gaza in 40 minutes)
I agree with the IDF folks calling this a LIHOP (Let It Happen On Purpose). Your biggest enemy is your own government.
Good comments. Have you seen the video of Israel’s helicopters dropping bombs on the people at the rave and their cars? You can see them fleeing their cars and then getting blown up. And Israel troops fired from tanks into houses where Hamas and their hostages were being held.
Ritter has a different take on what happened that day. Would love your thoughts on this.
He sees the Hamas actions as a military one and not a terrorist one. And it’s why Palestinians voted like they did. They have been under attack for 75 years and the world community has let them down.
Yes I've seen the videos and read what reports I can find. To be honest, there isn't an army in the world that would do it different. The soldiers on the ground were too few to call in accurate strikes for the helicopters so a lot of Israeli citizens end up being friendly fire. When tanks roll in people die. The infantry would inform that they are drawing fire from a building. Put a tank round in it and if you're still getting fire from it, put in a second round. A lot of the buildings were concrete (wood frame 1 round and done) so they got a couple and then the infantry goes in. NEXT. Sad but that is the evil that war is. Ignore the human lives at the receiving end because you will die if you screw up. Follow orders.
Not a fan of Ritter. His past is busted for trying to setup dates with under age minors. That type of baggage is easy to manipulate. Macgregor is much better on the big picture but skip the minutia (about 50/50 but hey it's a war zone and that's not too bad). They agree on a lot but when they differ I'll go with Macgregor.
MacGregor is a nut—he’s been wrong about everything in the Ukraine war. And I was open to him initially because he seemed to make a lot of sense when discussing the Afghanistan quagmire that Trump wisely ended.
While wrong on the detail his basic scenario of "Ukraine will not defeat Russia any more than Mexico could defeat the USA" has been proven correct. It's taken a lot longer than most anticipated to overcome the 8+ years of fortification building by NATO/Ukraine but that was due to the Russian strategy of going slow. They have now worn out the Ukraine military and are sealing cauldrons in several areas.
"Not a fan of Ritter. His past is busted for trying to setup dates with under age minors."
You should look into this more and see if you bought the propaganda about him. Remember that most people who go against the empire’s narrative usually get smeared.
I'm more than willing to hear his side but nobody ever asks it. The first one I figured could be payback for being correct about the WMD in Iraq prior to the second invasion. The second one? This seems to be a pattern. I'm very aware of the smears against people but some questions need to be asked and when nobody does then I do. They could set him up twice or fabricate it but I feel he needs to state his side and he never does.
Not saying anything is the best way not to get caught in a lie is also a possible explanation. I'm a paranoid type and that's a good thing!
Trying to prevent it. The Jewish extremists have twice tried to blow up the Al-Aqsa mosque and rebuild your temple. Fortunately Israeli security stopped them both times and they had explosives so it was real. Then they would achieve the impossible. They'd unite Arabs, Turks, Persians, Africans, Sunnis & Shia. Groups that would just as soon kill each other would all attack you and your nukes would not stop them. They will kill 50-60 million Muslims, maybe more, but the attacks will not stop and there will be 10 million dead Jews to go along with them.
I don't want that to happen so I am speaking out NOW because later will be of no use.
Israel has killed their own countrymen, starting with the CONvid bioweapon. Israel funds Hamas. Where was the IDF when their border was breached at various places?
Bush/Cheney spent $5 trillion and sacrificed 7000 troops just to make Iran stronger…I think Obama/Biden at least sacrificed fewer troops and spent less money.
Israel has one of the strongest, well equipped militaries in the world (and they still “failed” on 10//07.) Where does the money come from for that? What do you presume would happen if the USA stopped funding Israel? Why is the USA Israel’s ally? The ME needs to take care of itself.
I think that when I refer to “Biden”, most people know that I’m referring to the Biden administration.... whether it’s Obama, or Hillary, or Hunter, or Jill, or a combination who’s actually running the country.
Most intelligent beings know that Joe Biden isn’t, and never was, competent to be President.
As far Israel, they only have two options since it’s obvious that the Palestinians will never negotiate in good faith.
The first is an ongoing, low level war with the various terrorist groups surrounding Israel, but primarily Hamas....that goes on forever with the attending casualties, or
The second is to entirely eradicate the Hamas terrorist organization.
By most accounts, the Israelis were about to sign peace deals with much of the Arab world before the Hamas attack (supported by Iran) scuttled the effort ....at least for now.
Removing Hamas as a threat might eventually allow for a wider peace deal.
“Removing” those living in Palestine is a better answer, isn’t it? It’s very lucrative for Israel to take advantage of the natural gas/oil discovered in 2000. Follow the money/control/power…in the billions.
Attack Israel, and have an excuse to raze Gaza, etc.
Israel can become a hub for energy, and get “their homeland” back.
I wrote “eradicate the Hamas terrorist organization “, I said nothing about ‘removing those living in Palestine’.
Maybe if the “Palestinians” would take advantage of their gas and oil discoveries instead of concentrating on murdering Jews and eliminating Israel then they could turn Gaza into a decent place to live. What a thought.....
As for the Israelis getting “their homeland” back, they have already achieved that goal.
And it looks like they plan to keep it, despite the complaints and virtue signaling of western liberals and attacks by murderous Islamic terror groups.
In my humble opinion, you’re brainwashed. That’s okay. I used to believe everything my government told me, too. Now, I believe NOTHING. I do my own research and go down that very ugly, very dark and scary rabbit hole.
Are you equally concerned about the thousands of Russians, Ukrainians, Myanmar civilians and countless others all over the planet being killed in contemporary wars? Wars rarely discriminate between targets and even less when one side deliberately places its 'fighters' in the midst of civilians in an attempt to 'protect' them.
Israel doesn’t need our weapons. Take a look at what weapons Israel has created, used in Gaza to see how effective they are and then they sell them worldwide. Title is:
Not exactly the most reliable source, especially since they repeatedly lied about the Gaza hospital “massacre“ that was actually the result of a defective HAMAS missile.
That number, if accurate (there’s no verification) includes combatants, as they don’t distinguish, according to all news sources and that’s apparently just how they count. And includes combatants under 18 as children. Not that lI want any civilians to die, I am just clarifying that thousands in the reported 11000 are combatants.
It's very easy to condemn what's happening from afar. Your judgement presupposes that if you experienced the unbelievably evil events of Oct 7, you would able to act with grace, unlike the rest. It's gross arrogance. Israeli forces are not targeting civilians. If you can prove otherwise, show it.
Read what I wrote again sparky. I was explaining reasons why things went down the way they did. That is how war goes and there's not an army that would have done it differently. I'm not arrogant, I'm realistic.
If they hadn't been taken hostages they wouldn't have been killed. Hamas targets civilians so I do not support them. So does Israel so I don't support them. Yes Israel kills 20 Palestinians for every Israeli killed but principles are NOT dependent on quantity.
Anyone who didn't already knew this, should consider themselves disqualified from having opinions on the situation re: palestinians and israelis.
It has been well-known and well-documented for decades now, that the majority of palestinians support the destruction of Israel and the extermination of the jews, wherever they may be found.
I don't doubt that the poll results accurately represent how people responded. What they actually think might be different, as it could be dangerous to express a dissenting opinion there.
We only ever work with the data we have. We never work with imaginary assumptions of what people "really" think; that's something anti-racists, feminists, LGBTP+ people, and such do because reality does not conform to their ideology/religion.
Want to dispute the data? Find other data that does so and compare the methods used.
If you express dissent against Hamas you get killed. It’s pretty well accepted that part of the reason for the inaccurate 2016 Presidential polls was that people in the US were afraid to admit they were voting for Trump. If people will lie to pollsters because they don’t want some sort of vague social condemnation I’m pretty sure people will lie to avoid torture and death. If you trust American polling you’re a fool and I have no idea why you would think that any other polling would be reliable. A much more reasonable and fact based stance is, don’t take action based on information that’s impossible for us to obtain. There is no way to know how Palestinians actually feel when disagreeing with Hamas and assorted groups will get you killed. It’s still entirely possible that the numbers are authentic but since almost every single poll in 2016 was wrong forgive me for not trusting them anymore.
Since polls taken among other arabs, even in Europe, also regularly show 50%+ support for the destruction of Israel and the extermination of all jews, you can pretty much take it to the bank that the palestinians are represented correctly.
Centuries of being taught to blame and hate the jews will do that, regardless of politics.
Also, arguing that a poll is skewed doesn't change that we can only work with the data we've got. If you poll your patients on whether "transfats contribute to cancers in the digestive system" and give them the options "Yes", "No", and "Don't know" you have data - but that data says nothing on how transfats affects the risk of cancer, malignancy, growth-rate, et c.
It only tells you what people think, when answering the question.
I no longer have the data but I once saw a comparison as to how europeans vs americans answer the political compass-questionnaire. Virtually every question was interpreted differently between the groups, because as interviews showed - the concepts asked about are understood differently.
When it comes to asking "Do you support the extermination of the jewish people? Y/N?", there's no such ambiguity since the question is straight-forward.
And I've seen the palestinians march in Sweden for 30+ years, calling for the destruction of Israel and the extermination of all jews. Including palestinians born here, lately to palestinian parents born here.
Hating jews is simply a core part of being palestinian.
I suspect your last statement is true but it doesn’t negate the fact that polling is about as accurate as reading tea leaves when it comes to trying to gather accurate data.
Can't really expect people to look up things like the Arab Youth Survey or the World Values Survey and actually read dozens, sometimes hundreds of pages of dense text, graphs and abstracts and so on.
I'm not being sarcastic or anything, we can't really expect that - 40-60 hours work week, kids, school, TV news, drugs, all the rest of it and on top of that you're supposed to police your speech, to know the "right" opinion on anything under the Sun, and as an already eaten cherry on top, if you get it wrong you could lose your job.
I could wish people as a collective realised that. I don't comment on quantum mechanics - I don't know Jack from shit, and Jack left town. Why then does every Tom, Dick and Harry think just because they read The Guardian or The Sun (insert blag-mag of choice) they know all about [insert issue here]?
The People of Israel and Gaza are pawns on the Geopolitical Chessboard of the Globalists. Globalists have no regard for the lives of pawns and accomplish their goals by enabling both sides to destroy one another. The Madness stops when the Globalists are stopped.
True, but don’t do what Bush/Cheney did and sacrifice double the number of troops than died on 9/11 while spending $5 trillion and creating tens thousands of more terrorists.
Do you think when USA was bombing Germany or Vietnam we were worried about collateral damage called civilians? I'll answer, no. That's what happens in war.
It's getting harder to believe Israel apologist are ignorant.
First of all they denied water and power in a concentration camp they are responsible for, then they blow up hospitals, the refugee center - supposedly to kill a Hamas commander - and red cross ambulance and a UN school.
You justification for this is Hamas "human shields" with the IDF as a source.
Maybe if the Palestinians didn’t support mass murderers they wouldn’t be in the position that they are in.
It’s now obvious that a two state solution cannot work, so that leaves two choices for Israel.
They can have continued, low level, war with Hamas and the other terrorist groups, which will go on and on.......and wait for the Iranians to finish their bomb, with unknown consequences, or
They can thoroughly and utterly destroy the Hamas terrorists.
So round and round we go with the blame game. You started it. No you started it. Well you're worse than we are. No you are worse. Childish really don't you think? How about we talk solutions? Crazy idea because "the other side will never agree". The lack of interest every time I pose this is really indicative of the attitudes on both sides.
To solve this issue a deal must be struck that will pass referendum on both sides. Once the majority of people on both sides say "I can live with this" the extremists will have little if any support.
Just my SWAG but here is what I think could pass on both sides. A true solution will hurt both sides as both will have to give up that which is most precious to them.
1) Palestine gives up the "right of return" and Israel comes clean on their nuclear program. Full open inspections.
2) The West Bank, all of it, goes to Palestine or land swaps for those illegal settlements at a 2-1 ratio. No it is NOT a concession to give the West Bank up for Israel. Jordan ceded it to Palestine. To quote Sadat "Giving me back something that belongs to me is not a concession".
3) Gaza can stay or do a land swap while retaining mineral rights to the Mediterranean sea floor mineral wealth. I don't know if the "Pakistan / Bangladesh" setup would work. Maybe trade some of the settlement land for a transportation corridor to the West Bank. Israel can put walls and minefields on both sides on Israeli land if they want.
4) Jerusalem will be under the control of the elected mayor with an international force of 10,000 to protect. It will be the capital of both countries. I would love to see their parliament buildings across the street from each other.
Neither were killed by the MIC, nor were their deaths profitable.
We pay Egypt nearly as much as we pay Israel.
The MIC (which uh isn’t real, sorry) makes as much from arms sales in peace. The grand total of the Big 5 defense firms... drumroll... deep breaths...
.... is less than half of Walmart alone. In 2020; Big 5=246$B
WALMART = $523B.
The MIC is a myth.
Our 🇺🇸 usual plan is to buy peace by buying everyone, overall it’s successful- see the USSR and the aftermath. The chief problem with Hitler is he wouldn’t be bought. The USSR we bought up front in 1917.
Well it's OK to commit genocide but only to Palestinians. Palestine isn't a real country, so it follows that Palestinians aren't really human. Haven't you been following the science? Or whatever
A little bit of research, rather than personal bias, shows that the most "recent" elections were in 2007, when Hamas overthrew the existing Gaza government Fatah and then abolished all future elections.
But, but, but... every time there is a Jihadi Muslim terror attack, we are told that only a few Muslims are terrorists and that the vast majority of "moderate Muslims" in The Religion of Peace are nonviolent.
And Israelis voted for the first 2 of these and they've done way more damage to Jewish Israelis than Hamas ever could:
https://i.postimg.cc/8zdNzFyQ/Israel-Netanyahu-Bennett-Bourla.png
PS. I condemn everyone who intentionally targets civilians. I am not selective in my condemnation of Hamas & Israel. I have principles and one of them is "Civilians are NOT to be targeted". Both sides do it and both sides suck.
I do think that the Israelis make a huge effort to minimize civilian casualties, while Hamas does the exact opposite.
No one could ever accuse Hamas (or their Iranian masters) of worrying about civilians.
They don't even care about their OWN civilians. The people calling BS on the Israeli government's story are hardly pro-Palestinian. They are IDF & ex-IDF who served in and around Gaza. Some of them probably shot or shot at Palestinians. They cite FACTS like:
The list is getting longer. The 2 survivors of the Israeli base where the general (safe in a bunker) called in an air strike on his own base are saying they reported Hamas actions along the fence increasing from a couple of times a week to daily to several times a day. No action was taken.
Add that to the existing list:
1) Sept 1st the government takes arms away from the civilian defence forces in the Gaza belt communities.
2) Sept 10 the army tells the Gaza belt communities to go ahead with their planned festivities as they were sure they were entering a "period of calm"
3) Egypt warns Israel "Something big is afoot in Gaza" 10 days before Oct 7
4) Egypt warns Israel AGAIN that "Something big is about to happen in Gaza" 3 days before Oct 7
5) Israel PULLS a lot of troops from the Gaza border
6) Israel takes 7 (yes SEVEN) hours to respond (you can drive from Bere Sheva to Gaza in 40 minutes)
I agree with the IDF folks calling this a LIHOP (Let It Happen On Purpose). Your biggest enemy is your own government.
Good comments. Have you seen the video of Israel’s helicopters dropping bombs on the people at the rave and their cars? You can see them fleeing their cars and then getting blown up. And Israel troops fired from tanks into houses where Hamas and their hostages were being held.
Ritter has a different take on what happened that day. Would love your thoughts on this.
https://www.scottritterextra.com/p/the-october-7-hamas-assault-on-israel?utm_source=profile&utm_medium=reader2
He sees the Hamas actions as a military one and not a terrorist one. And it’s why Palestinians voted like they did. They have been under attack for 75 years and the world community has let them down.
Yes I've seen the videos and read what reports I can find. To be honest, there isn't an army in the world that would do it different. The soldiers on the ground were too few to call in accurate strikes for the helicopters so a lot of Israeli citizens end up being friendly fire. When tanks roll in people die. The infantry would inform that they are drawing fire from a building. Put a tank round in it and if you're still getting fire from it, put in a second round. A lot of the buildings were concrete (wood frame 1 round and done) so they got a couple and then the infantry goes in. NEXT. Sad but that is the evil that war is. Ignore the human lives at the receiving end because you will die if you screw up. Follow orders.
Not a fan of Ritter. His past is busted for trying to setup dates with under age minors. That type of baggage is easy to manipulate. Macgregor is much better on the big picture but skip the minutia (about 50/50 but hey it's a war zone and that's not too bad). They agree on a lot but when they differ I'll go with Macgregor.
MacGregor is a nut—he’s been wrong about everything in the Ukraine war. And I was open to him initially because he seemed to make a lot of sense when discussing the Afghanistan quagmire that Trump wisely ended.
While wrong on the detail his basic scenario of "Ukraine will not defeat Russia any more than Mexico could defeat the USA" has been proven correct. It's taken a lot longer than most anticipated to overcome the 8+ years of fortification building by NATO/Ukraine but that was due to the Russian strategy of going slow. They have now worn out the Ukraine military and are sealing cauldrons in several areas.
"Not a fan of Ritter. His past is busted for trying to setup dates with under age minors."
You should look into this more and see if you bought the propaganda about him. Remember that most people who go against the empire’s narrative usually get smeared.
I'm more than willing to hear his side but nobody ever asks it. The first one I figured could be payback for being correct about the WMD in Iraq prior to the second invasion. The second one? This seems to be a pattern. I'm very aware of the smears against people but some questions need to be asked and when nobody does then I do. They could set him up twice or fabricate it but I feel he needs to state his side and he never does.
Not saying anything is the best way not to get caught in a lie is also a possible explanation. I'm a paranoid type and that's a good thing!
https://i.postimg.cc/vZwdrB12/Paranoia-Keeping-Critter-Alive.png
Trying for a WW3 ?
Trying to prevent it. The Jewish extremists have twice tried to blow up the Al-Aqsa mosque and rebuild your temple. Fortunately Israeli security stopped them both times and they had explosives so it was real. Then they would achieve the impossible. They'd unite Arabs, Turks, Persians, Africans, Sunnis & Shia. Groups that would just as soon kill each other would all attack you and your nukes would not stop them. They will kill 50-60 million Muslims, maybe more, but the attacks will not stop and there will be 10 million dead Jews to go along with them.
I don't want that to happen so I am speaking out NOW because later will be of no use.
Israel has killed their own countrymen, starting with the CONvid bioweapon. Israel funds Hamas. Where was the IDF when their border was breached at various places?
Biden funds Hamas. Everyone seems to fund Hamas in order to buy them off.
But it never works. They take the money from whoever gives it, which Hamas then spends on missiles and other weapons it uses to attack Israel.
Bush/Cheney spent $5 trillion and sacrificed 7000 troops just to make Iran stronger…I think Obama/Biden at least sacrificed fewer troops and spent less money.
Biden doesn’t do one thing. He’s a “dog king”.
Israel has one of the strongest, well equipped militaries in the world (and they still “failed” on 10//07.) Where does the money come from for that? What do you presume would happen if the USA stopped funding Israel? Why is the USA Israel’s ally? The ME needs to take care of itself.
I think that when I refer to “Biden”, most people know that I’m referring to the Biden administration.... whether it’s Obama, or Hillary, or Hunter, or Jill, or a combination who’s actually running the country.
Most intelligent beings know that Joe Biden isn’t, and never was, competent to be President.
As far Israel, they only have two options since it’s obvious that the Palestinians will never negotiate in good faith.
The first is an ongoing, low level war with the various terrorist groups surrounding Israel, but primarily Hamas....that goes on forever with the attending casualties, or
The second is to entirely eradicate the Hamas terrorist organization.
By most accounts, the Israelis were about to sign peace deals with much of the Arab world before the Hamas attack (supported by Iran) scuttled the effort ....at least for now.
Removing Hamas as a threat might eventually allow for a wider peace deal.
“Removing” those living in Palestine is a better answer, isn’t it? It’s very lucrative for Israel to take advantage of the natural gas/oil discovered in 2000. Follow the money/control/power…in the billions.
Attack Israel, and have an excuse to raze Gaza, etc.
Israel can become a hub for energy, and get “their homeland” back.
God given, of course 😉.
I wrote “eradicate the Hamas terrorist organization “, I said nothing about ‘removing those living in Palestine’.
Maybe if the “Palestinians” would take advantage of their gas and oil discoveries instead of concentrating on murdering Jews and eliminating Israel then they could turn Gaza into a decent place to live. What a thought.....
As for the Israelis getting “their homeland” back, they have already achieved that goal.
And it looks like they plan to keep it, despite the complaints and virtue signaling of western liberals and attacks by murderous Islamic terror groups.
How dare they protect themselves.......
In my humble opinion, you’re brainwashed. That’s okay. I used to believe everything my government told me, too. Now, I believe NOTHING. I do my own research and go down that very ugly, very dark and scary rabbit hole.
There are no words for the insanity of humanity.
Are you equally concerned about the thousands of Russians, Ukrainians, Myanmar civilians and countless others all over the planet being killed in contemporary wars? Wars rarely discriminate between targets and even less when one side deliberately places its 'fighters' in the midst of civilians in an attempt to 'protect' them.
What evidence do isreal apologist have that Hamas uses human shields?
The weaker side in any combat retreats into cities where they hope the concrete buildings and civilians protect them or at least slow down the attack.
When you are getting slaughtered in the open field retreat to the cities and civilians be damned is pretty normal. Sad, but true.
Israel doesn’t need our weapons. Take a look at what weapons Israel has created, used in Gaza to see how effective they are and then they sell them worldwide. Title is:
Israel is shutting down its human laboratory.
https://chrishedges.substack.com/p/israel-is-shutting-down-its-human?utm_source=post-email-title&publication_id=778851&post_id=138947615&utm_campaign=email-post-title&isFreemail=true&r=1o7ey8&utm_medium=email
12k dead civilians according to Hamas.
Not exactly the most reliable source, especially since they repeatedly lied about the Gaza hospital “massacre“ that was actually the result of a defective HAMAS missile.
That number, if accurate (there’s no verification) includes combatants, as they don’t distinguish, according to all news sources and that’s apparently just how they count. And includes combatants under 18 as children. Not that lI want any civilians to die, I am just clarifying that thousands in the reported 11000 are combatants.
It's very easy to condemn what's happening from afar. Your judgement presupposes that if you experienced the unbelievably evil events of Oct 7, you would able to act with grace, unlike the rest. It's gross arrogance. Israeli forces are not targeting civilians. If you can prove otherwise, show it.
Read what I wrote again sparky. I was explaining reasons why things went down the way they did. That is how war goes and there's not an army that would have done it differently. I'm not arrogant, I'm realistic.
If they hadn't been taken hostages they wouldn't have been killed. Hamas targets civilians so I do not support them. So does Israel so I don't support them. Yes Israel kills 20 Palestinians for every Israeli killed but principles are NOT dependent on quantity.
Anyone who didn't already knew this, should consider themselves disqualified from having opinions on the situation re: palestinians and israelis.
It has been well-known and well-documented for decades now, that the majority of palestinians support the destruction of Israel and the extermination of the jews, wherever they may be found.
The only thing shocking about this survey is that anyone is shocked at the results.
And this justifies ethic cleansing because...
I would call the attempt to destroy Israel and murder her Jews “ethnic cleansing”.
It sure as hell meets the dictionary definition of “ethnic cleansing” more than anything that Israel has ever done......
That's a bit harsh of you to think it does.
Because Israel say so and Israel good.
I don't doubt that the poll results accurately represent how people responded. What they actually think might be different, as it could be dangerous to express a dissenting opinion there.
That's called a cop-out, what you just did.
We only ever work with the data we have. We never work with imaginary assumptions of what people "really" think; that's something anti-racists, feminists, LGBTP+ people, and such do because reality does not conform to their ideology/religion.
Want to dispute the data? Find other data that does so and compare the methods used.
If you express dissent against Hamas you get killed. It’s pretty well accepted that part of the reason for the inaccurate 2016 Presidential polls was that people in the US were afraid to admit they were voting for Trump. If people will lie to pollsters because they don’t want some sort of vague social condemnation I’m pretty sure people will lie to avoid torture and death. If you trust American polling you’re a fool and I have no idea why you would think that any other polling would be reliable. A much more reasonable and fact based stance is, don’t take action based on information that’s impossible for us to obtain. There is no way to know how Palestinians actually feel when disagreeing with Hamas and assorted groups will get you killed. It’s still entirely possible that the numbers are authentic but since almost every single poll in 2016 was wrong forgive me for not trusting them anymore.
Since polls taken among other arabs, even in Europe, also regularly show 50%+ support for the destruction of Israel and the extermination of all jews, you can pretty much take it to the bank that the palestinians are represented correctly.
Centuries of being taught to blame and hate the jews will do that, regardless of politics.
Also, arguing that a poll is skewed doesn't change that we can only work with the data we've got. If you poll your patients on whether "transfats contribute to cancers in the digestive system" and give them the options "Yes", "No", and "Don't know" you have data - but that data says nothing on how transfats affects the risk of cancer, malignancy, growth-rate, et c.
It only tells you what people think, when answering the question.
I no longer have the data but I once saw a comparison as to how europeans vs americans answer the political compass-questionnaire. Virtually every question was interpreted differently between the groups, because as interviews showed - the concepts asked about are understood differently.
When it comes to asking "Do you support the extermination of the jewish people? Y/N?", there's no such ambiguity since the question is straight-forward.
And I've seen the palestinians march in Sweden for 30+ years, calling for the destruction of Israel and the extermination of all jews. Including palestinians born here, lately to palestinian parents born here.
Hating jews is simply a core part of being palestinian.
I suspect your last statement is true but it doesn’t negate the fact that polling is about as accurate as reading tea leaves when it comes to trying to gather accurate data.
Can't really expect people to look up things like the Arab Youth Survey or the World Values Survey and actually read dozens, sometimes hundreds of pages of dense text, graphs and abstracts and so on.
I'm not being sarcastic or anything, we can't really expect that - 40-60 hours work week, kids, school, TV news, drugs, all the rest of it and on top of that you're supposed to police your speech, to know the "right" opinion on anything under the Sun, and as an already eaten cherry on top, if you get it wrong you could lose your job.
I could wish people as a collective realised that. I don't comment on quantum mechanics - I don't know Jack from shit, and Jack left town. Why then does every Tom, Dick and Harry think just because they read The Guardian or The Sun (insert blag-mag of choice) they know all about [insert issue here]?
I can read the Times of Israel .
Good for you. Your elementary school teacher did his/her job then, is what we're to take away from this statement?
"Defense minister announces ‘complete siege’ of Gaza: No power, food or fuel"
https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/defense-minister-announces-complete-siege-of-gaza-no-power-food-or-fuel/
Give it a try boomer.
The indoctrination to hate the Palestinians receive is from Israel. No one has to teach you to hate your jailer or the murderer of your family.
Which is why they need to finish them off and stop playing with the food.
Then, a good example set, we 🇺🇸can decolonize America- of the troublesome newcomers.
The People of Israel and Gaza are pawns on the Geopolitical Chessboard of the Globalists. Globalists have no regard for the lives of pawns and accomplish their goals by enabling both sides to destroy one another. The Madness stops when the Globalists are stopped.
Yes. Taking sides in these proxy wars is playing the globalists' game.
How many americans supported/support the terrorism done by the USofT in Iraq/Afghanistan/Libya/Syria... just to name to most recent ones?!
All humans support terror against the other humans and always have and always will.
That’s how we got here, our exact DNA records have a livestream review by HAMAS on Oct 7.
Meet Humanity.
Now saddle up or STFU and hide.
Hide well.
Or slaughter better than the others.
Have a nice day.
You must address that comment to the author of the recent articles!
For me we should cull each other till there is no more Uman Animal Noise on the Planet. The faster the better.
Maybe the new version of mRNA toxic spew can execute an even better SILENT CULL of the herds of MMS/3i's than any other uman violence.
It's funny to watch them drop like flies... But this is just a coinkydink!
Poison a woman’s weapon- I refer to the vax - and like women inconstant and unreliable.
Ineffective and unmanly.
And yet the Vax and vaccines in general were developed by men. Generally murder weapons are created and wielded by men.
Wars are brutal and proportionality is modern fiction.
Was there proportionality in bombing Dresden?
Was there proportionality in bombing Hiroshima and Nagasaki?
Was there proportionality when the British set up the first concentration camp and some 20 000 Boer women and children died in the camps?
True, but don’t do what Bush/Cheney did and sacrifice double the number of troops than died on 9/11 while spending $5 trillion and creating tens thousands of more terrorists.
Do you think when USA was bombing Germany or Vietnam we were worried about collateral damage called civilians? I'll answer, no. That's what happens in war.
No, that's what we were there to do.
It's getting harder to believe Israel apologist are ignorant.
First of all they denied water and power in a concentration camp they are responsible for, then they blow up hospitals, the refugee center - supposedly to kill a Hamas commander - and red cross ambulance and a UN school.
You justification for this is Hamas "human shields" with the IDF as a source.
Maybe if the Palestinians didn’t support mass murderers they wouldn’t be in the position that they are in.
It’s now obvious that a two state solution cannot work, so that leaves two choices for Israel.
They can have continued, low level, war with Hamas and the other terrorist groups, which will go on and on.......and wait for the Iranians to finish their bomb, with unknown consequences, or
They can thoroughly and utterly destroy the Hamas terrorists.
They don’t exactly have great options.....
Hmm... I don’t recall Irgun wanting to kill every Arab and non Jew in Palestine.
They absolutely did massacre a couple of villages and bomb, assassinate the British , as well as Count Bernadotte.
HAMAS aren’t going to become statesmen any more than Arafat.
They do I’m sure desire his riches and their own villa in Cyprus.
This isn’t a charge that can be leveled at Irgun.
Don't forget the Stern Gang folks LOL. Yea it's a gate that swings both ways.
So round and round we go with the blame game. You started it. No you started it. Well you're worse than we are. No you are worse. Childish really don't you think? How about we talk solutions? Crazy idea because "the other side will never agree". The lack of interest every time I pose this is really indicative of the attitudes on both sides.
To solve this issue a deal must be struck that will pass referendum on both sides. Once the majority of people on both sides say "I can live with this" the extremists will have little if any support.
Just my SWAG but here is what I think could pass on both sides. A true solution will hurt both sides as both will have to give up that which is most precious to them.
1) Palestine gives up the "right of return" and Israel comes clean on their nuclear program. Full open inspections.
2) The West Bank, all of it, goes to Palestine or land swaps for those illegal settlements at a 2-1 ratio. No it is NOT a concession to give the West Bank up for Israel. Jordan ceded it to Palestine. To quote Sadat "Giving me back something that belongs to me is not a concession".
3) Gaza can stay or do a land swap while retaining mineral rights to the Mediterranean sea floor mineral wealth. I don't know if the "Pakistan / Bangladesh" setup would work. Maybe trade some of the settlement land for a transportation corridor to the West Bank. Israel can put walls and minefields on both sides on Israeli land if they want.
4) Jerusalem will be under the control of the elected mayor with an international force of 10,000 to protect. It will be the capital of both countries. I would love to see their parliament buildings across the street from each other.
If you don't like it make me an offer LOL.
And -- for decades (ever after murder of Rabin) majority of Israelis prefer genocide of Palestinians.
Isn’t THAT shocking ?
Rabin and before him Sadat. Sigh. "Blessed are the peacemakers" ... unless they cut into the MIC profits then blow their heads off!!
Neither were killed by the MIC, nor were their deaths profitable.
We pay Egypt nearly as much as we pay Israel.
The MIC (which uh isn’t real, sorry) makes as much from arms sales in peace. The grand total of the Big 5 defense firms... drumroll... deep breaths...
.... is less than half of Walmart alone. In 2020; Big 5=246$B
WALMART = $523B.
The MIC is a myth.
Our 🇺🇸 usual plan is to buy peace by buying everyone, overall it’s successful- see the USSR and the aftermath. The chief problem with Hitler is he wouldn’t be bought. The USSR we bought up front in 1917.
Well it's OK to commit genocide but only to Palestinians. Palestine isn't a real country, so it follows that Palestinians aren't really human. Haven't you been following the science? Or whatever
This comment board is so overrun by trolls (or perhaps actual Jew-hating sociopaths) as to be unreadable.
of course Hamas represents the Palestinians! They voted for them in recent elections.
maybe their support of Hamas has more to do with being abused for the last 75 years than "cradle to grave hate indoctrination". Just a thought.
Last election was 17 yrs ago.
"They voted for them in recent elections."
A little bit of research, rather than personal bias, shows that the most "recent" elections were in 2007, when Hamas overthrew the existing Gaza government Fatah and then abolished all future elections.
But -- apartheid Bibi certainly founded and funded them....
If it happens in any town, not a city, the USA, they will be making a deadly mistake.
I am neither surprised nor shocked.
But, but, but... every time there is a Jihadi Muslim terror attack, we are told that only a few Muslims are terrorists and that the vast majority of "moderate Muslims" in The Religion of Peace are nonviolent.