"Individual health is to public health as liberty is to totalitarianism. The moment you depart from treating individuals and attempting to collectivize a population, you’re not so much an expert as you are an authoritarian control freak disguised as an expert."
THIS IS AWESOME! This is the smartest statement you have ever written. This says it all, it covers so MUCH that is wrong with our current "health" system, the whole thing, not just this scamdemic but especially the scamdemic.
Yeah, exactly. I've been poking around in the literature a bit and looking at this. Public health or global public health. It's a euphemism for the kind of profiteering technocratic solutionism whose outcome is certain to be tyranny and never real health, as you say. Usually comes wrapped in flashy talk about public-private partnerships, philanthrocapitalism and enlightened self-interest. Vomit-worthy, all of it.
There is some sort of academic output on this stuff and it seems to be pretty new. Was it built up purposefully, strategically? One of the worst, the absolute worst and most poisonous exemplars, is Devi Sridhar. Chair of Global Public Health at the University of Edinburgh, Clinton Foundation acolyte and all-round health ignoramus. She has become highly influential in the UK but appears to have no grasp of anything scientific or medical whatsoever.
She and a few others seem to have been made responsible for the shaping of the debate, setting the terms of the discourse at the academic level. Trying to give the shitshow a sheen of credibility. The whole thing stinks and good folk like you are starting to drag them into the light. Thanks, very much appreciated. It's probably time for a rigorous investigation into how this came to be.
"Public-private partnerships" is a misleading term, the "public" don't get a look in. What they are are "Government-Corporate partnerships", a combination of 8 & 9 of the "14 Defining Characteristics of Fascism". Philanthrocapitalism is just more newspeak, what it really is is misanthro-capitalism. We need to stop using their "warm and fuzzy PR" terms.
Jordan, you nailed it with this sentence alone: "Individual health is to public health as liberty is to totalitarianism." We are witnessing much of humanity selling out its [potentially] individualized, mature, critical thinking to a bunch of psychopathic criminals who want to control every living organism on Earth and turn it all into robotic slaves for their sick, twisted, inverted idea of "life." It boggles my mind that, over a year into this non-emergency, people are still refusing to take a stand, let alone question any of the lies, lies, and goddamned lies.
What puzzles me is what drives the selective attention the media pays even to their chosen public health authorities. The early recommendations from WHO, for lockdowns and masking, were taken as gospel. When the WHO later recanted, arguing that lockdowns were not worth the economic devastation and increase in inequality, and advocated full reopening of all schools, they were almost completely ignored. This and similar episodes expose that the supposed "follow the science" narrative is driven by a deeper narrative pushing ever greater control of society by a government controlled by woke elites. COVID and the exhortations to "follow the science" have only ever been tools of convenience to push this power-driven narrative.
WHO did not support masking initially, nor lockdowns. Their mistakes led to the pandemic. Note that sensible countries like Hong Kong and Taiwan that had early lockdowns and mask had little economic disruption and deaths
Well said Jordan. What is astounding, that it is clear throuought history the "Political experts" are those who are responsble for not only health issues, but are responsible for drving the flames of war too.
You're actually describing the greatest triumph of our government and elites since Civil Rights.
Which is about the time 'Ivory Tower' came into use.
Everything happened exactly as they wanted it to happen Jordan, all of it.
You are looking at features and thinking they're bugs, you are looking at desired successes and calling them failures. The costs are borne by the elites enemies Jordan - the American people.
That you and others haven't gotten used to the attendant suffering yet may be merely a matter of time. Civil Rights - a good cause seized by the Left, just as the Bolsheviks seized Russian Democracy - also caused fantastic suffering for decades as revolutionaries seized it, dramatically and breaking their word by extending it into everything and every aspect of life, breaking every single promise - and they broke their word faster than they broke the cities, faster even than record breaking crime. That didn't have to happen - it happened because THEY WANTED IT TO HAPPEN. And yet we got used to semi-tyranny, crime rates worse than war zones, forced associations. We can get used to forced disassociations, we all live on welfare or at the mercy of commissars.
But Jordan you really must stop seeing runaway successes as failures. Just as their is no common good, it's always good when your enemies suffer. We are the elites enemy, our suffering is their joy - and their profit.
THIS, precisely. This is exactly what they want. The whole thing was theatre designed to create an artificial recession, because they knew there was not about to be a real recession, and that Trump was gliding into a second term. The Floyd incident and the resulting riots were just icing on the cake.
"If I fall over the stump of a tree and break my leg, as is likely enough, I shall say to the lawyer, 'Please go and fetch the doctor.' I shall do it because the doctor really has a larger knowledge of a narrower area...[But] there cannot be such a thing as the health adviser of the community, because there cannot be such a thing as one who specializes in the universe. Health is simply Nature, and no naturalist ought to have the impudence to understand it. Health, one may say, is God; and no agnostic has any right to claim His acquaintance."
There's huge disconnect between public perceptions of 'public health' people, but primarily epidemiologists, as real scientists. Because they use fAnCy MaThS. In fact, many epidemiologists think they are doing science, because their models might be mostly math, when they model disease' spread among rodents etc. Many did not realize they ventured into social sciences. The only way to break that public perception of epidemiology as science is to tie epidemiological forecasts around their necks and hang them onto those. Like was (rightly) done to economists after the Great Recession.
So, I suggest making a 'hair chart' of various epidemiological forecasts (or maybe just one, IHME) done at various points in time around the actual trajectory. Possibly even compare it to the chart of economic forecasts in 2007-2010ish. Economists might end up looking better.
All of these "government agencies" such as NIH, CDC, FDA, NIAID, etc, are corporations. If you don't believe it, go look at the Dunn and Bradstreet website, where they're listed. Their goal is profit, not health.
A late reply: there is no such thing as a "public health" expert because there is no such thing as "public health". There is no entity called the "public" which can be healthy or unhealthy. There is only the healths of individuals - and "public health" has damaged those immensely.
These "authoritarian control freaks disguised as an expert" are the same people who brought clean water and public sewer systems to civilization. Or would you prefer we go back to dumping our chamber pots onto the sidewalk?
While you may find COVID public health guidelines restrictive to your privileged lifestyle, those who are more adversely affected because of social determinants of health depend on these scientists to help bring equity to fighting this pandemic.
I don't mean to be offensive but my comment is that you are very ignorant and know very little of what you wrote about. Public health is about doing things for the common good. The reason it failed in America is because you guys DID NOT COMPLY with public health recommendations. You could not even WEAR MASKS for crying out loud. That's why poorer more sensible countries are doing better than you
Unfortunately, masks are not proven to stop anything. It would be ignorant to believe that and worth while to seek out more accurate and honest reporting this far in to this pandemic. There were outbreaks where people were not social distancing, probably not washing hands enough. In the way mother nature's fierce tornado cannot be controlled this virus outbreak cannot be controlled. Herd immunity seems to be the most sensible logical step and the smartest countries allowed that. There's your difference. It would be ignorant to think we can stop a virus with masks. Even the vax isn't doing that. The proof masks do not work is clearly seen in the east coast where people wore them non stop in dire fear and cases still blew up. Of course there were criminally made decisions that many suspected last year with the elderly being irresponsibly placed at great risk. On the other hand, science has yet to explain how millions did not mask up like little robots in other states and never got sick. Nothing is clearly defined so it is wise not to purport a definitive knowledge when no one seems to have it. Better to not put all the eggs in that mask basket--- case.
Not true, counties that did little have the same infection curves as those who did lock down. The evidence is there for all to see. There are massive lawsuits brewing because the lock downs did nothing but destroy lives and businesses. They will go ahead because there is no evidence lock downs saved anyone. This whole pandemic was a sham. A globalist grab for power. The WHO , Gates, pharma and others are implicated by whistleblowers coming forward.
The point is that countries with lockdowns and masks did just as well as those without, because masks are useless theatre and lockdowns only locked down the "nonessential", meaning they were also useless theatre.
Yeah, that's a great "solution". Everyone should emulate it immediately, maybe we could return more rapidly to the Stone Age that Libtards fantasize about so fervently.
Yes, closed borders likely had a huge impact. According to the article linked above, they still experienced community spread once the virus entered the country. This was managed through strict lock-downs. As the article states, " By mid-March, it was clear that community transmission was occurring in New Zealand and that the country didn’t have sufficient testing and contact-tracing capacity to contain the virus. Informed by strong, science-based advocacy, national leaders decisively switched from a mitigation strategy to an elimination strategy (www.nzma.org.nz/journal-articles/new-zealands-elimination-strategy-for-the-covid-19-pandemic-and-what-is-required-to-make-it-work. opens in new tab). The government implemented a stringent countrywide lockdown (designated Alert Level 4) on March 26. During this period of exponentially increasing local cases, many people wondered whether these intensive controls would work. After 5 weeks, and with the number of new cases declining rapidly, New Zealand moved to Alert Level 3 for an additional 2 weeks, resulting in a total of 7 weeks of what was essentially a national stay-at-home order.
In early May, the last known Covid-19 case was identified in the community and the person was placed in isolation, which marked the end of identified community spread. On June 8, the government announced a move to Alert Level 1, thereby effectively declaring the pandemic over in New Zealand, 103 days after the first identified case." https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc2025203
This didn’t age well. China has shown us the very model of which you speak - universal lockdowns and masking - with epic failure and catastrophic results.
Some things to consider...Among those 85%, what percentage wore the mask properly? Masks are less effective if they are loose fitting or worn below the nose. What was the quality of the mask they wore? Single layer masks or those made with less tight-knit fabric are less effective. Statistics are not always as simple as they seem.
Correct. Statistics are not as proven over the last year with numbers all over the place. At the same time you can spin reporting in many ways too. Hence the very selective left leaning alphabet news who blatantly leaves out a lot of facts. Many from the left have left the left because the hate and opinion reporting don't cut it. After a year in, it would be nice for some of the folks here to consider following those who did not go wishy washy with science and who do not push any kind of narrative. Masks are not necessary, you must wear a mask. No wait you should wear two. Kids don't need a mask, now kids do. Toddlers don't need, now toddlers should. You should be fine without a mask after a vax. Ooops, keep wearing a mask after the vax. The east coast is a prime example of people who wore their masks in dire fear of not wearing them and look at their C-19 rates. Maybe masks are not useless? They are NOT proven useful. If anyone has not broadened their news intake by now to seek beyond the opinion outlets, they never will.
Damn, you've really cultivated an audience of shitheads who post shady links. I guess they just want to be like you, Jordan! I look forward to getting banned like everyone else who calls you out for being out of your gourd!
"Individual health is to public health as liberty is to totalitarianism. The moment you depart from treating individuals and attempting to collectivize a population, you’re not so much an expert as you are an authoritarian control freak disguised as an expert."
THIS IS AWESOME! This is the smartest statement you have ever written. This says it all, it covers so MUCH that is wrong with our current "health" system, the whole thing, not just this scamdemic but especially the scamdemic.
Yeah, exactly. I've been poking around in the literature a bit and looking at this. Public health or global public health. It's a euphemism for the kind of profiteering technocratic solutionism whose outcome is certain to be tyranny and never real health, as you say. Usually comes wrapped in flashy talk about public-private partnerships, philanthrocapitalism and enlightened self-interest. Vomit-worthy, all of it.
There is some sort of academic output on this stuff and it seems to be pretty new. Was it built up purposefully, strategically? One of the worst, the absolute worst and most poisonous exemplars, is Devi Sridhar. Chair of Global Public Health at the University of Edinburgh, Clinton Foundation acolyte and all-round health ignoramus. She has become highly influential in the UK but appears to have no grasp of anything scientific or medical whatsoever.
She and a few others seem to have been made responsible for the shaping of the debate, setting the terms of the discourse at the academic level. Trying to give the shitshow a sheen of credibility. The whole thing stinks and good folk like you are starting to drag them into the light. Thanks, very much appreciated. It's probably time for a rigorous investigation into how this came to be.
"Public-private partnerships" is a misleading term, the "public" don't get a look in. What they are are "Government-Corporate partnerships", a combination of 8 & 9 of the "14 Defining Characteristics of Fascism". Philanthrocapitalism is just more newspeak, what it really is is misanthro-capitalism. We need to stop using their "warm and fuzzy PR" terms.
Jordan, you nailed it with this sentence alone: "Individual health is to public health as liberty is to totalitarianism." We are witnessing much of humanity selling out its [potentially] individualized, mature, critical thinking to a bunch of psychopathic criminals who want to control every living organism on Earth and turn it all into robotic slaves for their sick, twisted, inverted idea of "life." It boggles my mind that, over a year into this non-emergency, people are still refusing to take a stand, let alone question any of the lies, lies, and goddamned lies.
What puzzles me is what drives the selective attention the media pays even to their chosen public health authorities. The early recommendations from WHO, for lockdowns and masking, were taken as gospel. When the WHO later recanted, arguing that lockdowns were not worth the economic devastation and increase in inequality, and advocated full reopening of all schools, they were almost completely ignored. This and similar episodes expose that the supposed "follow the science" narrative is driven by a deeper narrative pushing ever greater control of society by a government controlled by woke elites. COVID and the exhortations to "follow the science" have only ever been tools of convenience to push this power-driven narrative.
Media are controlled by the same megalomaniacs who support the UN & WHO& WEF cults simply put
WHO did not support masking initially, nor lockdowns. Their mistakes led to the pandemic. Note that sensible countries like Hong Kong and Taiwan that had early lockdowns and mask had little economic disruption and deaths
They changed the tune as ordered to by the Funder or stakeholder in chief. GATES
Forgot to say, great commentary, Jordan.
Well said Jordan. What is astounding, that it is clear throuought history the "Political experts" are those who are responsble for not only health issues, but are responsible for drving the flames of war too.
You're actually describing the greatest triumph of our government and elites since Civil Rights.
Which is about the time 'Ivory Tower' came into use.
Everything happened exactly as they wanted it to happen Jordan, all of it.
You are looking at features and thinking they're bugs, you are looking at desired successes and calling them failures. The costs are borne by the elites enemies Jordan - the American people.
That you and others haven't gotten used to the attendant suffering yet may be merely a matter of time. Civil Rights - a good cause seized by the Left, just as the Bolsheviks seized Russian Democracy - also caused fantastic suffering for decades as revolutionaries seized it, dramatically and breaking their word by extending it into everything and every aspect of life, breaking every single promise - and they broke their word faster than they broke the cities, faster even than record breaking crime. That didn't have to happen - it happened because THEY WANTED IT TO HAPPEN. And yet we got used to semi-tyranny, crime rates worse than war zones, forced associations. We can get used to forced disassociations, we all live on welfare or at the mercy of commissars.
But Jordan you really must stop seeing runaway successes as failures. Just as their is no common good, it's always good when your enemies suffer. We are the elites enemy, our suffering is their joy - and their profit.
THIS, precisely. This is exactly what they want. The whole thing was theatre designed to create an artificial recession, because they knew there was not about to be a real recession, and that Trump was gliding into a second term. The Floyd incident and the resulting riots were just icing on the cake.
"If I fall over the stump of a tree and break my leg, as is likely enough, I shall say to the lawyer, 'Please go and fetch the doctor.' I shall do it because the doctor really has a larger knowledge of a narrower area...[But] there cannot be such a thing as the health adviser of the community, because there cannot be such a thing as one who specializes in the universe. Health is simply Nature, and no naturalist ought to have the impudence to understand it. Health, one may say, is God; and no agnostic has any right to claim His acquaintance."
—G. K. Chesterton, Eugenics and Other Evils
http://www.gutenberg.org/files/25308/25308-h/25308-h.htm#CHAPTER_V
Bingo.
the free world is in shambles??
The free world? Free? Who are you kidding?
Your entire thesis demonstrates that US-occupied countries are anything but free.
That is a little funny when people use the term "The free world" when half of it (if not more) are anything but free.
There's huge disconnect between public perceptions of 'public health' people, but primarily epidemiologists, as real scientists. Because they use fAnCy MaThS. In fact, many epidemiologists think they are doing science, because their models might be mostly math, when they model disease' spread among rodents etc. Many did not realize they ventured into social sciences. The only way to break that public perception of epidemiology as science is to tie epidemiological forecasts around their necks and hang them onto those. Like was (rightly) done to economists after the Great Recession.
So, I suggest making a 'hair chart' of various epidemiological forecasts (or maybe just one, IHME) done at various points in time around the actual trajectory. Possibly even compare it to the chart of economic forecasts in 2007-2010ish. Economists might end up looking better.
Sounds about right to me
All of these "government agencies" such as NIH, CDC, FDA, NIAID, etc, are corporations. If you don't believe it, go look at the Dunn and Bradstreet website, where they're listed. Their goal is profit, not health.
A late reply: there is no such thing as a "public health" expert because there is no such thing as "public health". There is no entity called the "public" which can be healthy or unhealthy. There is only the healths of individuals - and "public health" has damaged those immensely.
These "authoritarian control freaks disguised as an expert" are the same people who brought clean water and public sewer systems to civilization. Or would you prefer we go back to dumping our chamber pots onto the sidewalk?
While you may find COVID public health guidelines restrictive to your privileged lifestyle, those who are more adversely affected because of social determinants of health depend on these scientists to help bring equity to fighting this pandemic.
Remember everyone, when Dr. Fauci brought clean water and public sewer systems to civilization?
Actually those people are long dead, their wastrel 7th generation brings us poverty, sewage, ruin, dependency, tyranny.
And lies.
You cannot wash the sewage of the present in the clean water of the past.
As for privilege, it is the privileged and the powerful who are laying waste the commons, mere petty sadism from petty people with power.
I don't mean to be offensive but my comment is that you are very ignorant and know very little of what you wrote about. Public health is about doing things for the common good. The reason it failed in America is because you guys DID NOT COMPLY with public health recommendations. You could not even WEAR MASKS for crying out loud. That's why poorer more sensible countries are doing better than you
Unfortunately, masks are not proven to stop anything. It would be ignorant to believe that and worth while to seek out more accurate and honest reporting this far in to this pandemic. There were outbreaks where people were not social distancing, probably not washing hands enough. In the way mother nature's fierce tornado cannot be controlled this virus outbreak cannot be controlled. Herd immunity seems to be the most sensible logical step and the smartest countries allowed that. There's your difference. It would be ignorant to think we can stop a virus with masks. Even the vax isn't doing that. The proof masks do not work is clearly seen in the east coast where people wore them non stop in dire fear and cases still blew up. Of course there were criminally made decisions that many suspected last year with the elderly being irresponsibly placed at great risk. On the other hand, science has yet to explain how millions did not mask up like little robots in other states and never got sick. Nothing is clearly defined so it is wise not to purport a definitive knowledge when no one seems to have it. Better to not put all the eggs in that mask basket--- case.
From that remark you are not American, so see yourself out off our business. This was a struggle for power and money, something you quite missed.
Nonsense. Story below this one
CDC 85% of people with COVID wore masks always of often.
Believe what you will. Countries with universal masking and lockdown did better than people with patchy implementation
Not true, counties that did little have the same infection curves as those who did lock down. The evidence is there for all to see. There are massive lawsuits brewing because the lock downs did nothing but destroy lives and businesses. They will go ahead because there is no evidence lock downs saved anyone. This whole pandemic was a sham. A globalist grab for power. The WHO , Gates, pharma and others are implicated by whistleblowers coming forward.
Which countries had good results without lockdown and masks
The point is that countries with lockdowns and masks did just as well as those without, because masks are useless theatre and lockdowns only locked down the "nonessential", meaning they were also useless theatre.
Given your comment above, please explain the success New Zealand had in controlling the pandemic. https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc2025203
New Zealand closed its borders
Yes, and we didn’t.
Because our govt seeks our harm.
You understand nothing - be off.
Yeah, that's a great "solution". Everyone should emulate it immediately, maybe we could return more rapidly to the Stone Age that Libtards fantasize about so fervently.
Yes, closed borders likely had a huge impact. According to the article linked above, they still experienced community spread once the virus entered the country. This was managed through strict lock-downs. As the article states, " By mid-March, it was clear that community transmission was occurring in New Zealand and that the country didn’t have sufficient testing and contact-tracing capacity to contain the virus. Informed by strong, science-based advocacy, national leaders decisively switched from a mitigation strategy to an elimination strategy (www.nzma.org.nz/journal-articles/new-zealands-elimination-strategy-for-the-covid-19-pandemic-and-what-is-required-to-make-it-work. opens in new tab). The government implemented a stringent countrywide lockdown (designated Alert Level 4) on March 26. During this period of exponentially increasing local cases, many people wondered whether these intensive controls would work. After 5 weeks, and with the number of new cases declining rapidly, New Zealand moved to Alert Level 3 for an additional 2 weeks, resulting in a total of 7 weeks of what was essentially a national stay-at-home order.
In early May, the last known Covid-19 case was identified in the community and the person was placed in isolation, which marked the end of identified community spread. On June 8, the government announced a move to Alert Level 1, thereby effectively declaring the pandemic over in New Zealand, 103 days after the first identified case." https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc2025203
This didn’t age well. China has shown us the very model of which you speak - universal lockdowns and masking - with epic failure and catastrophic results.
Some things to consider...Among those 85%, what percentage wore the mask properly? Masks are less effective if they are loose fitting or worn below the nose. What was the quality of the mask they wore? Single layer masks or those made with less tight-knit fabric are less effective. Statistics are not always as simple as they seem.
Correct. Statistics are not as proven over the last year with numbers all over the place. At the same time you can spin reporting in many ways too. Hence the very selective left leaning alphabet news who blatantly leaves out a lot of facts. Many from the left have left the left because the hate and opinion reporting don't cut it. After a year in, it would be nice for some of the folks here to consider following those who did not go wishy washy with science and who do not push any kind of narrative. Masks are not necessary, you must wear a mask. No wait you should wear two. Kids don't need a mask, now kids do. Toddlers don't need, now toddlers should. You should be fine without a mask after a vax. Ooops, keep wearing a mask after the vax. The east coast is a prime example of people who wore their masks in dire fear of not wearing them and look at their C-19 rates. Maybe masks are not useless? They are NOT proven useful. If anyone has not broadened their news intake by now to seek beyond the opinion outlets, they never will.
Damn, you've really cultivated an audience of shitheads who post shady links. I guess they just want to be like you, Jordan! I look forward to getting banned like everyone else who calls you out for being out of your gourd!
What a pointed retort.