I remember exactly where I was (West coast early AM) when I found out what was happening. Like those who experienced the JFK assassination in real time, it was a reality-piercing event. Those two incidents marked the beginning of the end of the American Empire. Yes, the road to perdition can be traced back much further than 1963, but that is when many Americans woke up to the fact they were being incessantly, aggressively, lied to by their "trusted" government.
And if we do not go back up that road to dismantle the secret government by repealing the CIA Act and the National Security Act, we can expect more of the same.
"....for we are opposed around the world, by A MONOLITHIC AND RUTHLESS CONSPIRACY that relies on covert means for expanding it's sphere of influence ––
on infiltration instead of invasion, on subversion instead of elections, on intimidation instead of free choice, on guerrillas by night instead of armies by day. It is a system which has conscripted vast human and material resources into the building of a tightly knit, highly efficient machine that combines military, diplomatic, intelligence, economic, scientific and political operations..." President John F. Kennedy, The President And The Press speech
I’m always amazed at the naivety of those who still after all these years cling desperately to the idea that the government loves them and has only their best interests at heart.
How utterly naive we were up to that terrible moment on 9-11...funny how it took another 15 years for the blinders to really slide down and additional 3 years to realize we are all standing in a pond of muck with truly horrid people chanting ‘there’s nothing to worry about here...’ hoping they were still on the side of good, truth and beauty...silly us....
Hindsight indeed. Don't forget that the entirety of the media was in lock step coordination and all promoted the official narratives and initiatives without question. The internet was in its adolescence, the term "social media" had yet to be invented, and there were no significant alterative news sources to consult.
The sad part about that is who funded and organization the Bolshevik Revolution. There was never a reason prior to early 1900’s for Russia and America to be at odds with each other.
Are you implying that invading Afghanistan and Iraq were incorrect responses to an attack by Saudi Arabians? That there were no weapons of mass destruction ready to be unleashed upon us? That the government would lie to us and the vast majority of Americans buy into that obvious nonsense and would accuse skeptics of being unpatriotic? Excuse me while I go order some freedom fries.
The Taliban were enablers, if not outright facilitators. Maybe Rumsfeld, Cheney, et al intended it to be like an "honor killing." Kill your offspring for embarrassing your family and for blowing up your stuff. And starting a war can do a government good, for awhile
Sep 11, 2023·edited Sep 11, 2023Liked by Jordan Schachtel
I was in high school in 1979 during the Iran hostage crisis. While not exactly on the scale of 9/11, it was at the time a huge blow to America's perceived strength and respect on the international stage. That it was allowed to linger and fester for over a year, including a pathetic failed rescue attempt, reflected so poorly on Carter and his administration and revealed their weakness for all the world to see.
And while the aftermath fortunately did not beget such atrocities as the Patriot Act, I don't think Americans ever felt the same way about their country or its place in the world once it was over. I know that my then young mind at the time saw this and I never forgot that feeling.
As we both seem have had our respective political awakenings around the same age, albeit in response to different events in different eras, I have to wonder what high schoolers today think about covid, Ukraine, and the whole upside down politics we are currently living through. Are they just going along with it like social media, Hollywood, and sports figures tell them to? Or do at least some of them see the cracks in the façade, or get the feeling they are being manipulated? The precipitous decline in the quality of education over the past couple of decades -- even without considering the impact of the lockdowns and school closures -- would not suggest any prevalence of even basic critical thinking among the young.
> Are they just going along with it like social media, Hollywood, and sports figures tell them to? Or do at least some of them see the cracks in the façade, or get the feeling they are being manipulated?
Quite possibly they'll grow up seeing through the facade, and telling themselves how clever they were for seeing through the "right-wing disinformation campaign".
> Or do at least some of them see the cracks in the façade, or get the feeling they are being manipulated?
Hard to say. Also before a certain age, if the whole MSM tells children that it's saving them from the manipulations of the big bad conservatives, they'll grow up believing themselves very clever for seeing through the conservatives' manipulations.
To use an very old example, Boomers grew up thinking themselves very clever for "seeing throw" the official story of the JFK assassination, never noticing that the MSM and general establishment was taking every opportunity to promote the conspiracy theories. And most importantly avoiding noticing the fact that JFK's assassin was a card carrying communist.
BradK: I looked up Operation Eagle Claw the rescue attempt by Carter of the 52 hostages at the US embassy in Tehran. What a fiasco! Look it up. The rescue mission was a disaster with a helicopter colliding with a transport. 8 servicemen died.
There were maintenance problems with the helicopters (there always are) and so they sent in 8 choppers though only 4 were needed for the mission. (Good idea). Three chopper bailed out due to mechanical issues but five helicopters were left. That was enough for the mission but Carter, on the advice of staff, called off the operation.
On the retreat a chopper collided with the C-130 transport which was carrying servicemen and fuel for the op.
Boom!
The Ayatollah said it was divine intervention.
Yeah, Carter/military incompetence is more like it.
I know a guy who was on that mission. There that night in the desert. He said it was sabotage, not mechanical failure. I still believe his first hand account.
Dennis K McGee: All I know is the official version of that story. I would trust a first hand account much more as well. It is odd to have three choppers down at the same time. Did the choppers fly in from aircraft carriers? I wonder is anyone has written a detailed book or article about Operation Eagle Claw.
Yes, I remember that well. And like most histories which reflect poorly on the Democrats, you rarely if ever hear about it. Unlike, say, Watergate, which the media incessantly revives as if it happened yesterday. Expect the Afghan withdrawal fiasco to soon be memory holed along with Russiagate.
"Expect the Afghan withdrawal fiasco to soon be memory holed along with Russia gate" The media barely covered it in the first place, so it never even reached many Americans' memories. Just like Hunter's laptop, et al.
Back then I listened to Sports radio and music. I didn’t even know Rush Limbaugh existed. And I kept saying to anyone who would listen “wtf are we doing. Iraq has nothing to do with this”. Amazing how many abandoned any amount of common sense and just went along.
The reason we're no safer is because the real perpetrators of 911 were never charged or even questioned. 19 Muslims did not have a thing to do with 911. Does the word "patsy" ring a bell? They were all Lee Harvey's that day and continue to be as long as we keep repeating the fake news about September 11th. 911 was AN INSIDE JOB. Period. Full stop. That is the only way our military could've botched their response so heinously. Those generals actually getting in front of a camera saying it was a "failure of imagination." I have a bulletin for ya: 911 was nothing short of imagination in the hands of the devil. The next "imagination failure" is going to be an alien invasion. Please don't get fooled again. These so called aliens are demons doing satans bidding. We are under attack not by flesh and blood but of powers and principalities in high places. Do you know what NASA means in Hebrew? To deceive. We've been deceived for way too long. It's time to wake up to the deception because the worst thing that can happen to the deceitful ones is that we figure out their con game. I don't know about you, but I want my true identity back from the thieves who stole it 3000 years ago.
Obviously you misread my comment. Do some research on bldg 7, people reporting explosions all morning then explain to me how the "hijackers" took down those bldgs.
I remember 9/11 so well. It wasn’t until covid that I was actually open enough to listen to what I thought was “ridiculous” even 10 years ago. Our government wouldn’t actually assist in this kind of thing. To kill its own people? Weaponize our patriotic sentiment against us? I sometimes wish I could go back 10 years. I don’t want to know this stuff. But we do.
This is the heart of the issue. The vast majority can’t or won’t admit that our world is this blatant evil. They prefer to write it all off as madness, no matter the evidence
Jordan brings up some really good, if painful points. That was an unbelievably emotional time. I feel bad for the leaders that were trying to make good calls and didn't know they often had bad (deliberately or not) information. Many people were trying their best to figure things out. I was especially proud of our armed forces who served in Desert Storm and subsequent operations. Just because the intelligence has now been deemed questionable, we should not let it take away from the sacrifices those men and women made for us. And frankly, they killed a lot of enemies that truly wanted to see us destroyed.
On a more trivial, but still wistful note, I feel bad that we will never enjoy the flying on airlines again. It was so fun meeting friends or family at the gate, dropping a package off to someone passing through, or being able to board a plane without seeing your paraplegic grandma get a body cavity search.
Oh goodness... I'm not an expert on our military operations. But there was much more at stake than Kuwait's sovereignty. Why do you think the ENTIRE U.N. voted for sanctions? Iraq's invasion was condemned by the entire Middle East. It was potentially incredibly destabilizing for the whole area. And besides, we started with Desert Shield first and gave them plenty of time to withdraw before we came in bombed the crap out of them. But compared to Afghanistan and 9/11 the goals were much more clear cut and transparent. Of course, one can argue we pulled out too soon, but at least we didn't get bogged down (initially) in "country building."
I'm not sure what your point is. Every country had a reason to not want Iraq in Kuwait--some altruistic, some not. Of course oil was a big part of the motivation (for some countries more than others). That's not some secret knowledge you have there.
You are a UN buttboy globalist. The Deep State has fried your brain. Protecting Kuwait’s sovereignty was not a vital American interest…doesn’t mean I don’t support a use of force to help Ukraine but in 2023 I don’t think we could send ground troops as part of the use of force.
It's odd to me that you're so against the action against Iraq over three decades ago, and yet you support helping Ukraine.
The only real reason the US is raining money on Ukraine is bc so many politicians (on both sides) have had slimy deals with them for years. Zelenskyy is simply operating a gigantic blackmail operation.
Sorry, I hit send in the middle of a long musing about our military efforts since Desert Storm... I was going to add that because Enduring Freedom and much of our entire Afghanistan involvement has been unclear and unfocused, it created huge opportunities for profit and political power. The soldiers serving in Iraq in 1991 got a hero's welcome. The soldiers who have served in Afghanistan for years maybe get a pat on the head, if they're lucky. And yet, they all served and sacrificed.
Was just talking with someone about how the 90s were possibly peak civilization, but upon second thought much of it was superficial. While we were thoroughly enjoying life, the military industrial complex was creating the conditions we now contend with, particularly the catastrophes in the Middle East and potential hot war with Russia. All of this could have easily been avoided, but kudos to the defense-industry lobbyists for being able to purchase those D.C.-area mansions I guess.
Eugine Nier: (Who spells "Eugene" with an "i"?) The National Security State is the source of our ills. The Federal Reserve is the NSS' banker.
It's all about Vietnam or is it WWII or Korea or Serbia or Libya or Iraq or Afghanistan or Panama or Chile or Honduras or Guatemala or the Bikini Atoll or Eniwetok or the Nordstream Pipeline, or Maui, or Paradise, or East Palestine, or do you think the conditions we see today come from Washington DC?
> do you think the conditions we see today come from Washington DC?
If by "conditions" you mean general collapse, yes. Although they're more ultimate source is bad philosophy taught to future members of our elite at places like Harvard and Berkeley.
Eugine Nier: They aren't my elite from places like Harvard and Berkeley. There is nothing elite about the thieving egotistical bastards and bitches. They are gangsters.
I remember exactly where I was (West coast early AM) when I found out what was happening. Like those who experienced the JFK assassination in real time, it was a reality-piercing event. Those two incidents marked the beginning of the end of the American Empire. Yes, the road to perdition can be traced back much further than 1963, but that is when many Americans woke up to the fact they were being incessantly, aggressively, lied to by their "trusted" government.
And if we do not go back up that road to dismantle the secret government by repealing the CIA Act and the National Security Act, we can expect more of the same.
"....for we are opposed around the world, by A MONOLITHIC AND RUTHLESS CONSPIRACY that relies on covert means for expanding it's sphere of influence ––
on infiltration instead of invasion, on subversion instead of elections, on intimidation instead of free choice, on guerrillas by night instead of armies by day. It is a system which has conscripted vast human and material resources into the building of a tightly knit, highly efficient machine that combines military, diplomatic, intelligence, economic, scientific and political operations..." President John F. Kennedy, The President And The Press speech
Building 7
"dustification" of Buildings 1 & 2
Collapsed due to falling debris.
Ya right! BS
🫵🤦🏼♂️😂😂 are you really that delusional?
It always amazes me how two decades old leftist propaganda suddenly becomes the hot new edgy right-wing hot take.
No matter how many times I see the 20 year old leftist propaganda to edgy right wing hot take pipeline, I'm always amazed by it.
I’m always amazed at the naivety of those who still after all these years cling desperately to the idea that the government loves them and has only their best interests at heart.
No one is saying that.
How utterly naive we were up to that terrible moment on 9-11...funny how it took another 15 years for the blinders to really slide down and additional 3 years to realize we are all standing in a pond of muck with truly horrid people chanting ‘there’s nothing to worry about here...’ hoping they were still on the side of good, truth and beauty...silly us....
Hindsight indeed. Don't forget that the entirety of the media was in lock step coordination and all promoted the official narratives and initiatives without question. The internet was in its adolescence, the term "social media" had yet to be invented, and there were no significant alterative news sources to consult.
There was one person (wish I could remember his name) who insisted there were no WMD’s in Iraq. I remember seeing him on the Today Show.
I think you’re referring to Scott Ritter, he was a weapons inspector and called bullsh*t on Bush
And he’s doing the same on Ukraine...and he’s absolutely correct.
Donahue
Does it ever seem strange to you that one of the largest daytime shows was opposing the war that the whole MSM was supposedly supporting?
The Today Show?
Donahue
If you were incised and drained, what color would the pus be?
Red, White, and Blue.
Must stop Russia.
Fight them in Ukraine or fight them here.
F ing broken record.
The sad part about that is who funded and organization the Bolshevik Revolution. There was never a reason prior to early 1900’s for Russia and America to be at odds with each other.
Have you ever read " Confessions of an Economic Hitman " ? I read it 35 years ago. It opened my eyes.
https://www.armstrongeconomics.com/world-news/violence/never-forget-9-11/
Ive been meaning to read that. I hear good things
Vicki: Great book that explains a lot of the criminal activity of the folks in DC and NYC.
Are you implying that invading Afghanistan and Iraq were incorrect responses to an attack by Saudi Arabians? That there were no weapons of mass destruction ready to be unleashed upon us? That the government would lie to us and the vast majority of Americans buy into that obvious nonsense and would accuse skeptics of being unpatriotic? Excuse me while I go order some freedom fries.
The Taliban were enablers, if not outright facilitators. Maybe Rumsfeld, Cheney, et al intended it to be like an "honor killing." Kill your offspring for embarrassing your family and for blowing up your stuff. And starting a war can do a government good, for awhile
Iraq - That was plain bad.
Yes.
“The American war machine weaponized this rage, this indignant mission, into a multi decade boondoggle in dozens of nations.”
And that was the whole point of the 9/11 false flag operation.
But that is not where it ends
Neither party is on the people's side. We need to look out for one another.
I was in high school in 1979 during the Iran hostage crisis. While not exactly on the scale of 9/11, it was at the time a huge blow to America's perceived strength and respect on the international stage. That it was allowed to linger and fester for over a year, including a pathetic failed rescue attempt, reflected so poorly on Carter and his administration and revealed their weakness for all the world to see.
And while the aftermath fortunately did not beget such atrocities as the Patriot Act, I don't think Americans ever felt the same way about their country or its place in the world once it was over. I know that my then young mind at the time saw this and I never forgot that feeling.
Appreciate your perspective
As we both seem have had our respective political awakenings around the same age, albeit in response to different events in different eras, I have to wonder what high schoolers today think about covid, Ukraine, and the whole upside down politics we are currently living through. Are they just going along with it like social media, Hollywood, and sports figures tell them to? Or do at least some of them see the cracks in the façade, or get the feeling they are being manipulated? The precipitous decline in the quality of education over the past couple of decades -- even without considering the impact of the lockdowns and school closures -- would not suggest any prevalence of even basic critical thinking among the young.
> Are they just going along with it like social media, Hollywood, and sports figures tell them to? Or do at least some of them see the cracks in the façade, or get the feeling they are being manipulated?
Quite possibly they'll grow up seeing through the facade, and telling themselves how clever they were for seeing through the "right-wing disinformation campaign".
> Or do at least some of them see the cracks in the façade, or get the feeling they are being manipulated?
Hard to say. Also before a certain age, if the whole MSM tells children that it's saving them from the manipulations of the big bad conservatives, they'll grow up believing themselves very clever for seeing through the conservatives' manipulations.
To use an very old example, Boomers grew up thinking themselves very clever for "seeing throw" the official story of the JFK assassination, never noticing that the MSM and general establishment was taking every opportunity to promote the conspiracy theories. And most importantly avoiding noticing the fact that JFK's assassin was a card carrying communist.
BradK: I looked up Operation Eagle Claw the rescue attempt by Carter of the 52 hostages at the US embassy in Tehran. What a fiasco! Look it up. The rescue mission was a disaster with a helicopter colliding with a transport. 8 servicemen died.
There were maintenance problems with the helicopters (there always are) and so they sent in 8 choppers though only 4 were needed for the mission. (Good idea). Three chopper bailed out due to mechanical issues but five helicopters were left. That was enough for the mission but Carter, on the advice of staff, called off the operation.
On the retreat a chopper collided with the C-130 transport which was carrying servicemen and fuel for the op.
Boom!
The Ayatollah said it was divine intervention.
Yeah, Carter/military incompetence is more like it.
I know a guy who was on that mission. There that night in the desert. He said it was sabotage, not mechanical failure. I still believe his first hand account.
Dennis K McGee: All I know is the official version of that story. I would trust a first hand account much more as well. It is odd to have three choppers down at the same time. Did the choppers fly in from aircraft carriers? I wonder is anyone has written a detailed book or article about Operation Eagle Claw.
Yes, I remember that well. And like most histories which reflect poorly on the Democrats, you rarely if ever hear about it. Unlike, say, Watergate, which the media incessantly revives as if it happened yesterday. Expect the Afghan withdrawal fiasco to soon be memory holed along with Russiagate.
Pretty fair point.
"Expect the Afghan withdrawal fiasco to soon be memory holed along with Russia gate" The media barely covered it in the first place, so it never even reached many Americans' memories. Just like Hunter's laptop, et al.
Back then I listened to Sports radio and music. I didn’t even know Rush Limbaugh existed. And I kept saying to anyone who would listen “wtf are we doing. Iraq has nothing to do with this”. Amazing how many abandoned any amount of common sense and just went along.
> “wtf are we doing. Iraq has nothing to do with this”.
You and the entire MSM. Did you ever notice that part?
No, because I literally consumed zero MSM. But people say that the entire MSM cheered the war. I would have no idea if that was true or not.
> No, because I literally consumed zero MSM.
Not directly. Seems like the message reached you by osmosis anyway.
> But people say that the entire MSM cheered the war.
Nearly the entire MSM was congratulating themselves on their bravery for being the brave dissidents opposed to it.
Most notably the Daily Show was pioneering innovative propaganda techniques in order to do so.
The reason we're no safer is because the real perpetrators of 911 were never charged or even questioned. 19 Muslims did not have a thing to do with 911. Does the word "patsy" ring a bell? They were all Lee Harvey's that day and continue to be as long as we keep repeating the fake news about September 11th. 911 was AN INSIDE JOB. Period. Full stop. That is the only way our military could've botched their response so heinously. Those generals actually getting in front of a camera saying it was a "failure of imagination." I have a bulletin for ya: 911 was nothing short of imagination in the hands of the devil. The next "imagination failure" is going to be an alien invasion. Please don't get fooled again. These so called aliens are demons doing satans bidding. We are under attack not by flesh and blood but of powers and principalities in high places. Do you know what NASA means in Hebrew? To deceive. We've been deceived for way too long. It's time to wake up to the deception because the worst thing that can happen to the deceitful ones is that we figure out their con game. I don't know about you, but I want my true identity back from the thieves who stole it 3000 years ago.
> 19 Muslims did not have a thing to do with 911.
Right, because as we all know Islam is a peaceful religion, and Muslims would never dream of doing anything like 9/11.
> Period. Full stop. That is the only way our military could've botched their response so heinously.
I'd just like to highlight the absurdity of the above argument.
Obviously you misread my comment. Do some research on bldg 7, people reporting explosions all morning then explain to me how the "hijackers" took down those bldgs.
Extremely well said!
All in " Ze Plan" ?
WW1 took away Royal Families' real power.
WW2 America became world's leader.
WW3 To take away all Nations' ruling power ? ( with much less people on earth ? )
I remember 9/11 so well. It wasn’t until covid that I was actually open enough to listen to what I thought was “ridiculous” even 10 years ago. Our government wouldn’t actually assist in this kind of thing. To kill its own people? Weaponize our patriotic sentiment against us? I sometimes wish I could go back 10 years. I don’t want to know this stuff. But we do.
This is the heart of the issue. The vast majority can’t or won’t admit that our world is this blatant evil. They prefer to write it all off as madness, no matter the evidence
> Our government wouldn’t actually assist in this kind of thing.
Well it almost certainly didn't.
Jordan brings up some really good, if painful points. That was an unbelievably emotional time. I feel bad for the leaders that were trying to make good calls and didn't know they often had bad (deliberately or not) information. Many people were trying their best to figure things out. I was especially proud of our armed forces who served in Desert Storm and subsequent operations. Just because the intelligence has now been deemed questionable, we should not let it take away from the sacrifices those men and women made for us. And frankly, they killed a lot of enemies that truly wanted to see us destroyed.
On a more trivial, but still wistful note, I feel bad that we will never enjoy the flying on airlines again. It was so fun meeting friends or family at the gate, dropping a package off to someone passing through, or being able to board a plane without seeing your paraplegic grandma get a body cavity search.
Well said. Agree with all of this.
frett: I agree with your last paragraph. Not so much your first paragraph.
Desert Storm was 1991…do you believe defending Kuwait’s sovereignty was in America’s VITAL national interests??
Oh goodness... I'm not an expert on our military operations. But there was much more at stake than Kuwait's sovereignty. Why do you think the ENTIRE U.N. voted for sanctions? Iraq's invasion was condemned by the entire Middle East. It was potentially incredibly destabilizing for the whole area. And besides, we started with Desert Shield first and gave them plenty of time to withdraw before we came in bombed the crap out of them. But compared to Afghanistan and 9/11 the goals were much more clear cut and transparent. Of course, one can argue we pulled out too soon, but at least we didn't get bogged down (initially) in "country building."
The UN??? Are you joking?? It was about oil, everyone knows that.
I'm not sure what your point is. Every country had a reason to not want Iraq in Kuwait--some altruistic, some not. Of course oil was a big part of the motivation (for some countries more than others). That's not some secret knowledge you have there.
> It was about oil, everyone knows that.
I see the MSM propaganda worked on you.
You are a UN buttboy globalist. The Deep State has fried your brain. Protecting Kuwait’s sovereignty was not a vital American interest…doesn’t mean I don’t support a use of force to help Ukraine but in 2023 I don’t think we could send ground troops as part of the use of force.
It's odd to me that you're so against the action against Iraq over three decades ago, and yet you support helping Ukraine.
The only real reason the US is raining money on Ukraine is bc so many politicians (on both sides) have had slimy deals with them for years. Zelenskyy is simply operating a gigantic blackmail operation.
Sorry, I hit send in the middle of a long musing about our military efforts since Desert Storm... I was going to add that because Enduring Freedom and much of our entire Afghanistan involvement has been unclear and unfocused, it created huge opportunities for profit and political power. The soldiers serving in Iraq in 1991 got a hero's welcome. The soldiers who have served in Afghanistan for years maybe get a pat on the head, if they're lucky. And yet, they all served and sacrificed.
Was just talking with someone about how the 90s were possibly peak civilization, but upon second thought much of it was superficial. While we were thoroughly enjoying life, the military industrial complex was creating the conditions we now contend with, particularly the catastrophes in the Middle East and potential hot war with Russia. All of this could have easily been avoided, but kudos to the defense-industry lobbyists for being able to purchase those D.C.-area mansions I guess.
Sorry, but the conditions we see today did not come from the military industrial complex.
Eugine Nier: (Who spells "Eugene" with an "i"?) The National Security State is the source of our ills. The Federal Reserve is the NSS' banker.
It's all about Vietnam or is it WWII or Korea or Serbia or Libya or Iraq or Afghanistan or Panama or Chile or Honduras or Guatemala or the Bikini Atoll or Eniwetok or the Nordstream Pipeline, or Maui, or Paradise, or East Palestine, or do you think the conditions we see today come from Washington DC?
> do you think the conditions we see today come from Washington DC?
If by "conditions" you mean general collapse, yes. Although they're more ultimate source is bad philosophy taught to future members of our elite at places like Harvard and Berkeley.
Eugine Nier: They aren't my elite from places like Harvard and Berkeley. There is nothing elite about the thieving egotistical bastards and bitches. They are gangsters.
I wish. Gangster would probably not be as destructive.
Eugine Nier: That depends. Do you consider Genghis Khan a gangster?
Great piece, Jordan. I would end with what the mainstream media will never tell their readers:
We are one heartbeat away from an unspeakable disaster where more men in skirts will run our security, and one election away from normal.